Jan 14: Manne and Marie de France

In her Preface that you read for today, Kate Manne observes:

“[W]omen positioned in relations of asymmetrical moral support with men have historically been required to show him moral respect, approval, admiration, deference, and gratitude, as well as moral attention, sympathy, and concern. When she breaks character, and tries to level moral criticisms or accusations in his direction, she is withholding from him the good will he may be accustomed to receiving from her” (xviii).

Choose either Yonec or Lanval and describe how Manne’s observation here helps you understand an aspect of the medieval text.

 

20 thoughts on “Jan 14: Manne and Marie de France

  1. The forms of “moral support” (xviii) that Manne describes can be seen in “Lanval” through the complex relationship between Lanval and the lady. The attention and service that women give to men appear as the lady promises to “provide him with enough” by gifting him her body, her affection, and the endless gift of having whatever he desires (line 139). As such, these gifts represent the imbalance of moral support between the pair. However, the shift that Manne describes as “withholding” (xviii) manifests itself in Lanval’s unanswered calls to the lady following his admission of her existence. Her lack of presence upon his literal beck and call followed by his contemplation of suicide illustrate the gender roles of the time. It shows not only the medieval idea of a perfect woman but also the dependence of man upon this woman. The several mentions of the lady’s appearance as “white” also demonstrate a desire for purity (lines 564-565), and the lady “entirely at his command” solidifies the notion that the ideal woman acts in subservience to man (line 218). Even so, her lack of presence affects Lanval so deeply that the control of women over men can be seen in an inadvertent way.

  2. The moral support that is expected of women from Kate Manne’s observation can be supported by the evidence provided in Marie de France’s “Yonec”. This story is one that has to do with a woman that is suppressed and locked away for the satisfaction of her husband, who she repeatedly calls “jealous”. The purpose of having a wife for him was to bear children that would inherit his money one day, however, he is proud of himself for having a beautiful bride. “He loved her on account of her beauty, but because she was so fair and noble, he took great care to watch over her and locked her away in his tower in a large paved chamber.” He was very possessive of her and always required that she be looked after in order to assure that she would never betray him or not provide for him what he needed. After years of being locked away, she felt useless and lifeless in his tower and even says, “I am a prisoner in this tower and death alone will free me,” (87). While she is daydreaming of knights that come to save maidens like herself, “handsome and courtly lowers, worthy and valiant men” a knight appears in her room to confess his love for her. After the knight’s first visit, she became happy again and began to take care of herself and regained her youthful beauty as a result. This leads me to the question: had she learned to depend on men for happiness from love?

  3. In “Yonec”, the lady falls in love with a kind knight, despite already being married to another man. This secret love, which eventually leads to almost everyone’s death, was caused by her not being valued as a human being, and rather as a rare object that needed to be hidden from the world. As Manne describes, the lady withheld the “good” that he expected to receive from her which resulted in him cruelly killing her love. When viewing this situation with a misogynistic lens, readers may be able to see how this occurred because she was unfaithful and that her punishment was not unwarranted. However, relationships revolving around asymmetrical moral support are clearly unjust. No one would expect her to treat him with respect, after the blatant disrespect that he treated her with throughout the beginning years of the marriage.

  4. This quote from Manne’s book Down Girl emphasizes such relationships of asymmetrical moral support that women historically have with men in “Yonec”. The reader is expected to view the lady’s elderly husband negatively, ultimately persuading the reader to view the knight more positively. The asymmetrical moral support Manne discusses first appears in the beginning of the story when the lady is married off to a wealthy, elderly man who’s jealousy and urge to “protect her” leads him to lock her in a tower with no contact with the outside world beside his own sister. Though the husband claims to love this beautiful young woman, such actions prove to be entitled, controlling, possessive, and cruel. The narrator states that “[t]he lady is very sad,” which results in depression and lack of self care, and therefore a lack of physical beauty (213). The lady even states that if she were able to leave the castle, that she would “show him a kind face, / even if [she] didn’t want to” (215). This illustrates the asymmetrical moral support Manne speaks of, where a woman is expected to show respect and gratitude despite her situation. When she falls in love with the knight and begins caring for herself and her physical beauty, he views this as odd and believes that something is wrong; why would she be dressing herself up if not for another man? Her sudden care for her appearance is viewed as breaking character. The elderly husband reacts violently, angered in her change of character despite his unjust treatment of his wife for seven years, vowing to kill her winged lover.

  5. Manne discusses the idea of moral support in relation to Women’s partners. The story “Yonec” focuses on a partner whose only roles are that of bearing children (heirs). He loved her not because of any substantial values but because of her beauty- in an attempt to keep her protected she remained in a guarded tower. She was kept in this tower in relation to that of a prized possession. She was his moral support in this sense, but was perhaps also an ego booster. This sense of oppression that she had fostered eventually made her crave the satisfaction of death. The lady’s only purpose in this story is to obey and service her male counterpart- which seen through the lense of Manne provokes the idea of women being moral support for their husbands to indulge in.

  6. With the words from Kate Manne’s novel Down Girl, the female character of Marie de France’s Yonec, the Lady of Caerwent, can “break character” and eventually leave her confined chambers to travel to find her lover in another city: “She went out through a window / it is a wonder she did not kill herself / for it was a good twenty feet high from where she jumped” (337-340). The Lady risks her life to show her lover “admiration… attention, sympathy, and concern” (xviii). The Lady, while already married, seems to have a dual sense of loyalty at the beginning of the text due to her obeying her husband and remaining to be locked away in her tower. Yet when she encounters and falls in love with the Knight, she disregards her former allegiance to her husband and chooses to forfeit her safety to reach the Knight to show him emotional appeal. This seems to be a classic example of what Manne is arguing in the quotation provided, and further shows the far-stretching history of the female character in literature and misogyny’s grip on history.

  7. In the intro to her book, Manne mentions that a privileged white man is “deemed entitled” to a woman “to rely for nurturing, comfort, care, sexual, emotional and reproductive labor” (XV). This is best seen in the story of Lanval and his relationship with the Lady. This relationship comes to him when he is in need and the woman provides him with all of the things that Manne says men think they are entitled to. She cares for him, gives him rich clothes and food and sex. When he is facing his trial, he calls for his love and again expects her to be there for him and provide him with the things that he needs. His love for the lady doesn’t stem from anything but superficial and materialistic things. He loves her because she gave him everything he expected from a woman and because he feels as though it is owed to him.

  8. Manne’s observation about asymmetrical moral support (xviii) is demonstrated in Marie de France’s “Yonec.” When the elderly man takes a wife, it is revealed that there are other women who also live in the residence (line 33). Through the relationship between the lady and the elderly man, in which he keeps her imprisoned and uses her ,it is likely that the other women serve a similar purpose. This not only demonstrates Manne’s observation that men are reliant on women, but emphasizes it because of the mention of more than one woman serving in that role of giver that Manne describes (xxi). In addition, the old lady serves as an example of what Manne characterizes as “Mrs Beadle” in her work as both her example and the old lady tend to side with the male but likely have no other alternative (xx). A clear example of this is when it is mentioned that the lady never spoke to the other ladies “unless the old woman told her to” (line 36). Here the old lady is contributing to the isolation and imprisonment that the elderly man has placed upon his wife.

  9. In Mannes Preface, she mentions how women are required to show men admiration and respect (xviii). In Lanval, The Lady is constantly being described as granting her “body” and “love” fully to Lanval, with very little, if anything in return. For example, at the beginning of the story, The Lady tells Lanval that he can have “possession” of her body (line 150). This is a theme that is displayed throughout the entire story. This text just prolongs the outdated stigma that women are objects to be seen, and not people to be heard.

  10. I think Manne’s words can be seen especially in “Yonec.” The lady was given to this rich man and he locks her away to guard her (lines 23 and 26). They are meant to have children but never do, and rather than letting the lady have any semblance of a life, she has to stay locked away and is only meant to live as a means for her husband. She is expected to simply exist for when he wants to interact with her and to be content with that. This supports Manne’s observation that women are used to support men by being there for them when they want them at any given time (obviously an extreme case since she is imprisoned) and should be submissive even when they are in an uncomfortable/unwanted situation.

  11. In some ways, Lanval’s lady could be seen as a figure of power in the story because she is wealthy, influential, and self-assured (which is demonstrated when she, although temporarily, gives up Lanval because he broke a promise). Even when Lanval begged her to take him back, “it did him no good at all” (line 340). It is towards the end of the book that Manne’s observation truly provided me with an additional perspective of the tale. The lady showed him a multitude of positive emotions such as moral approval, attention, and concern when she rescued him from the king. Her presence received significant admiration from the crowd, which alludes to the positive reinforcement of her maintenance of character. She was seen as good for saving him from an unjust fate, whereas if she had kept her vow fully and ignored his situation, she would have been seen as a villain. If the lady had broken character and withheld her moral sympathy, the readers’ perspective of the lady would have been negative. Readers of all genders are accustomed to reacting to different characters in certain ways, depending on what they know to be true.

  12. Also in her preface is a quote by Catharine A. MacKinnon that reads, “When will women be human? When?” and I think it’s important to note because in “Lanval,” the only reason the lady is revered instead of expected to submit to Lanval as a man is because she is decidedly not human. She is the one who provides for him, and she caters to his every need but it is on her own terms. She gives him a rule, and though he messes up and breaks it, she still comes to his rescue and carries him away on horseback. This role reversal is interesting, but telling. It’s made possible by her most likely being from another realm, like that of the realm of the fae, with their otherworldly beauty, riches, and secrets. It’s as if making the case that she is on higher ground than him in the relationship because he’s an outcast among other men already, and because she is potentially magic and therefor comes from a different way of life, better than ours. It’s easy to assume that if the man had the magic and the lady was an outcast in our world, then she would be socially obligated to be the pillar of moral support for him that Manne talks about, but not of her own choosing. She wouldn’t hold the power over him that Lanval’s lady has.

  13. I think “Lanval” really demonstrates what Manne is trying to get across about how women are often relied upon to be a man’s moral backbone. The knight’s love for his lady / beloved provides reasoning for him to be giving and faithful. Before reading Manne’s article I had never considered the fact that women are often seen as more moral than men a misogynistic belief, however it does put unfair pressures on women to take up the mantle as consciences for the male race. In fact, Manne is participating in this activity as she writes a book about misogyny. In “Lanval” we can contrast the queen and the lady in their actions and their rewards by the end of the story. The queen temps Lanval to be her lover, despite the fact that she is married to the king; she receives no reward and is not honored for her actions. The lady gives to Lanval and is honored, described in great detail as very rich and beautiful, and is rewarded with being with her beloved at the end of the story. The moral woman is rewarded but the immoral woman is pushed to the back burner, nondescript, and shoved aside. I wonder which woman Marie de France would have seen herself as in the story.

  14. In reading Kate Manne’s Preface, I couldn’t help but notice the blatant one sided nature to the relationship between Lanval and the Lady. Although a medieval text, one can’t help but turn their head at the fact that this woman, upon seeing Lanval for the first time, tells him she “[loves] him more than anything”(116). It is as if the text over emphasizes this role of women being over affectionate and caring to the point where it is nonsensical. The Lady is even willing to give up all her “will” in support of Lanval, showcasing again this one sided nature to their relationship. However, even though the story of Lanval places the Lady in this stereotypical role of the caring woman, I felt as if the ending did present a role of power for the Lady. Although she is helping Lanval survive in the ending of the story, this wouldn’t have been possible without her power as queen and her beauty. Lanval is even seen riding “on the palfrey, behind her,” another instance in which Marie de France showcases a medieval viewpoint of female empowerment (640).

  15. Manne’s observation helps me depict “Yonec”, through the secret/forbidden love that the knight shares with a woman who is already married to another man. The woman is unhappy because she is not treated humanely by her husband and is being imprisoned from the world. By getting caught with the knight, the husband seeks out to kill him due to her betraying him and also, as Manne describes, him not feeling as if he has received enough and all of his wife. He saw her as his possession and obligated to be his moral support without having her own wishes to fulfill outside of her relationship. This is a prime example of what women are expected to provide and if fail to do so are accused poorly of their moral character.

  16. In the terms of this quote, women doing the unexpected or being critical of men, hence not showing them “respect, approval, admiration, deference, and gratitude” they are used to, is uncommon and not accepted. Arthur’s Queen in “Lanval” does just that. Arthur’s Queen begs for Lanval’s love and he refuses her, causing her to run to her room in distress. She then lies to the king and tells a tale of Lanval pursuing her and humiliating her when she refused. This is the Queen showing no respect or approval as Manne says towards Lanval. And while what she did isn’t necessarily right, it is an example of her “withholding from him the goodwill” as Manne states in her quote. When Lanval calls for his love and she does not come immediately, it is yet another example on that same page of a woman not doing exactly what a man expects from her. Lanval suffers as his love does not show from his call, “A hundred times he cried to her to have mercy, to come and speak with her beloved.” (Lines 350-351)

  17. In “Lanval”, like almost every other Arthurian romance the Queen is portrayed as a promiscuous and then scorned woman who can not find her love with the King. Marie de France in this particular version portrays what Manne writes on the position of women historically through this identity that the Queen takes after Lanval rejects her. The Queen is unwilling to simply be rejected by this knight, particularly because she put herself out there with her feelings. If Lanval is as loyal to the King as his accusation implies, the Queen may have signed her death sentence. How Marie de France brings in the accusation of homosexuality from the Queen is her trying to save her neck. She follows this formula that Manne set up perfectly. That speaks to how the construct of women surrounded by men is. Even a woman is writing about how it’s wrong that the Queen would withhold such praise of another man.

  18. In regards to “Lanval”, this Queen is recognized as someone who ulitmentaly represents all women during this awful time. It shocked me how dangerous it was to be a woman during this time-period. A woman is thought upon in a certain way and males are though upon in a certain way as well. Manne touches on this issue and made it more apparent to everyone and increased the awareness.

  19. I would like to take this opportunity to compare the fairy lady and Guinevere in Lanval. Manne describes the perfect woman by listing the traits she is expected to constantly portray, and in return, a man will love her. However, Manne points out that this is not a fair deal; the man receives ‘asymmetrical moral support’ from the woman, and the love she receives can be taken away as soon as she does not live up to the ideal.

    The fairy lady represents the ideal woman. She is constantly giving to Lanval, for the very small price of secrecy. She is kind, generous, and loving; she even offers her body to him. We are automatically rooting for her from the very start, and when she saves Lanval in spite of his breaking the sole promise she asked of him, we are happy for them. It feels right. We aren’t meant to question if Lanval really deserved to be saved, after he gave nothing to his savior.

    Guinevere is the opposite of the ideal woman. She plots and schemes, goes after what she wants in spite of what men have to say, and is in it for herself. When she propositions Lanval, we immediately are to understand she is the bad guy in the situation. She is denying her husband, King Arthur, a perfect faithful wife. When Lanval challenges her, she challenges him back. This further cements her role as the ‘bad woman’, for as Manne has pointed out, a good woman never levels criticism or accusation at a man.

  20. In Marie de France’s Lanval, Lanval and the fairy lady epitomize a relationship with asymmetrical moral support. Manne discusses the expectations dawned on women in these positions, the unwavering concern, gratitude, and admiration towards the man to name a few, and the fairy lady provides all of these and more. She promises her love, her body, and all the wealth he desires entirely at his command with secrecy being her only condition. Of course, the promise of secrecy is broken by him in a moment of outrage and he is faced with the consequence of her absence. Lanval is expectedly torn apart to the point of contemplating suicide when she stops showing up, very much aligned with how Manne suggests a man would be when a woman in her position suddenly “withholds” her “good will”. Reading this story, we are all rooting for Lanval and the fairy lady. Considering Marie de France’s popularity and the dynamics of this relationship, it’s obvious that relationships with asymmetrical moral support (favoring the man) was sought after in medieval times and even appears to be a dream scenario.

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