Throughout our readings in British literature so far, we have seen the role of women portrayed in various ways. In this particular reading, Margery Kempe takes it upon herself to become so incredibly religious that she is criticized, mocked, and even uninvited to church events because of her weeping. Her name becomes very well known, which is something out of the ordinary for women of that time, however- do you think her new popularity reflects on women positively or negatively?
ENGL 201 | British Literature to 1800
Myra Seaman | Fall 2012
Margery of Kempe is criticized and mocked because of her incredible religious beliefs. She asks her husband to join her in a celibate relationship and eventually leaves him to go on many pilgrimages. Because of these extreme religious beliefs Margery Kempe becomes well known in society. But this is not a positive thing for her or women in general because she is so out of the ordinary and not accepted by the people in her community. Everyone thinks she is crazy that she would leave her husband to do such a thing, if she didn’t want to have a true marriage then she should not have been married in the first place and became a nun. With her reputation going around their town this reflects poorly on women because women only are just starting to have a larger role in society being able to write their own works, and this women takes it to an extreme which does not set a good example to the men in the society. If society praised her for her work then this would have been an example of a positive reflection of women; but this was not the case.
I like that you said that this is an issue particularly because women are just now beginning to have a larger role in society. I couldn’t agree more. I feel that since it has taken such a long time for women to get to the place that they are, Margery Kempe’s behavior is confirming all of the reasons that men previously had for limiting women’s privileges. The fact that she goes to the extreme will every aspect of her life does not reflect positively on women of the time by any means, and the fact that her image and reputation is being talked about everywhere isn’t helping the situation either.
Margery Kempe’s popularity, although rare for a woman at the time, reflects women negatively. Margery suffers mentally throughout the course of her life. From believing that the devil surrounds her after she gives birth to her first child to being shunned in York, Margery has a bad reputation that surrounds her. I would never believe that negative attention would be better for women than women not receiving any attention.
I think the last sentence of your comment if very interesting. Take into consideration the concept of there being, “no such thing as bad press.” True the definition of the truly misogynistic term ‘hysteric’ comes from the actions and portrayals, (whether accurate or not), of women like Margery, and their actions (and the negative representation there of) can be seen as a blow to what ever minimal progression women were attempting at the time but it is also important to recognize that were it not for her name being well known and her story being one that was relatable that perhaps it would not have been as widely acknowledged. As is stated in one of the other questions this work is extremely important and perhaps one the the first autobiographies written in the english language, so regardless of WHY she was well known, I think it is best that she is so, and I think, based upon her frank honesty in her willingness to tell her own story, she would be too, just for the sake of her story getting out there.
I believe that Margery Kemp portrays a very negative image of women. While she may have been well known and even famous, it was not for examplary or respectable reasons. She seems to have been a victim of mental insanity. Whether she truly was cannot be known but it is clear that the society of the time believed she was. Were she just a good chritstian woman, she would not have been barred from the church and mocked by all. She may have believed in what she was doing, but the rest of society obviously did not. Her negative attention and persona is not at all a postive reflection on women.
It seems like Margery Kempe is setting an awful example for women. Women are known for being a bit emotional, but Kempe spends a lot of her time crying. The priest won’t even have council with her because she cries so much in The Proem of the text. After the birth of her child, Kempe becomes delusional and sees demons everywhere. Kempe even tries to convince her husband to remain celibate with her at one point – despite the whole being married to one another thing. Throughout the text, Kempe’s character is very dynamic, full of religious conviction paired with constant doubt. Her fame reflects negatively on the view of women at the time, it makes every religious woman seem insane.
Like everyone else has stated before me, I believe that Kemp’s popularity was unconventional and reflected on women negatively. Yes, people knew her and read her works but her insane religious zeal pushed people either away in disgust or towards her out of sheer curiosity due to her extreme way of life. It was not what one would called a respectful popularity within her life time. Yet today she might have been received differently and reflected on women positively. However, since Kemp was one of the only women writing and being read by the masses at the time, her beliefs demonstrated to her audience that all or most women were like her too: driven to extreme places to satiate the giant zealot living in their skull.
I agree in every since that Margery Kempe is a crazy loon. If your zealousness is so overwhelming that a friar and archbishop are telling ya to give it a rest, it may give you a hint that you have taken it a notch to far. But, what is impressive is her standing in the standing in the community, that she had a voice. So much that it was dictated into an autobiography. So while I don’t admire the lady’s opinions, she was still part of a progressive feminine movement.
As everyone has stated above me Margery Kempe definitely brings a negative connotation to women. She is looked down upon wherever she travels. Although every time she is arrested she is able to talk her way out of it, proving that her beliefs are pure and she is not a heretic. So yes, Margery absolutely seems crazy, and completely engulfed in her own little world. She lost respect as a person because she left her husband and because she made a scene wherever she went. But I think the more important point to consider is that despite how society viewed her, Margery continued to pursue her own beliefs.
Margery is so religious that she is criticized, mocked, uninvited to church events because of her weeping. I believe that this gives a negative portrayal of women, because, yes, she is popular, but not for positive reasons. Her name becoming well known is also a sign that it is not a positive reflection of women, because like the question said, this was out of the ordinary for women of that time. This means women would have to do something really big in order to make them well known, and women during this time wouldn’t usually be recognized for doing something impressive. While being so religious, she is crazy and pushes many people away because of it.
Yeah, I’m with the rest of these guys on this one. I think what did it for me was the part when she told her husband she’d rather see him murdered than have sex with him. That was pretty much the first instance of celibacy I’ve seen that was the total opposite of innocence, making Margery a slightly paradoxical character. She tries to relate to everything in terms of the holy spirit and basically becomes a self obsessed maniac. She becomes so religious to the point where she is too religious for even the church. On the other hand you could say that she was living deliberately by fighting the social norms for women as secondary citizens. However, though independence should be valued, it can only be valued to a certain extent and Margery crosses the line.
As everyone has mentioned, Kempe obviously gives women a negative portrayal in society. Her home life was wrought with sins (it is speculated she had sexual relations with a man other than her husband), she strived to become a saint, and suffered a mental breakdown. In her journey to sainthood she brought negative limelight upon herself. She challenged powerful clerical men, brought herself to tears during mass, and she renounced her family and proceeded to go on numerous pilgrimages. Although she does give women a bad name, she is remembered today in literary history for writing the first autobiography in English. Kempe made a name for herself, she just went about it the wrong way.
I believe that Kempe’s life and and story gives negative attention to the women of that time because her actions were so out of place and individual. Whereas nowadays women are praised for standing up for their beliefs and speaking out publicly for them, other women in Kempe’s time were not really doing so. At the time, I am sure that Kempe was seen as crazy and overly emotional. Women, and men, were not that emotional about their religious beliefs and so Kempe’s constant keening and pilgrimages were set so much farther beyond the social “norm” of the time. The fact that she was so radical at a time when no one else really was gives the negative view of women, not so much the reasons behind her radical actions. She could have been overly emotional in any other area and still have been seen as crazy, simply because she was so much more vocal and adamant about something at a time when women were just starting to gain more social power.
I agree with everyone else. I do think that in this case there is such a thing as “bad press”. While today Kempe’s views would probably be accepted and respected, at this time, women were not supposed to be known for their views and opinions. Due to her views, people focused on her strangeness, rather than focusing on the good in her. Because of this, I would venture to say that she while she did bring attention to the women’s social movement, she didn’t help the movement grow, and if anything set it back. Granted, she was attributed with writing the first autobiography, however, her views were so out of place, she was labeled strange, versus focusing on her new writing technique at the time.
Margery Kempe negatively portrays women in this society. During this time, a woman would have to do a lot to become well known, and it is always easier for people to recognize people for the negative things that they’ve done than the positive things. Margery steals everyone’s attention by her weeping and dramatic religious behavior. it is almost ironic that she leaves her husband to go on these pilgrimages, because marriage is a religious institution in itself. if she was being truly religious she would have kept her vow of marriage.
Her popularity is not a positive or a negative reflection by any means. Over the course of twenty years Margery Kempe gave her husband fourteen children. Considering the difficulty of her first birth and the reproaching, unforgiving, and damning nature of the confessor to whom she tries to reveal her sin, I cannot blame her for being in contradiction with many of the Catholic Church’s traditions. If this is how a priest reacts to the confession of a woman who believes she is on her death bed, I would not have any consideration for the popular beliefs that men like these uphold. Because of the guilt for her pre-marriage activity, now reinforced, as well as her suspect mental condition, is it so unlikely that she would resort to her supposedly extreme views as a means of pennance? How many other women, after devoting twenty years to marriage and childrearing, found themselves widowed and with free time to think about their religious beliefs in a practical, secular way as well as their sins? I feel like the answer could be many and may also be the result of her popularity. Her popularity more than likely infamous to some, she could very well have been an inspiration to women like her.
Margery Kempe’s new popularity reflects women in a negative way rather than a positive way. She is criticized and mocked because of her extreme religious belifs. Although she seems to get a lot of attention, mostly because she spends a lot of time crying, negative attention is worse than not receiving any attention. She is well known in society because of her extreme views, but this is not a positive reputation. She even leaves her husband to go on pilgrimages. The people around her think she is crazy for leaving her husband for such a reason. She seems to be mentally unstable. After the birth of her child, she believes that she seems demons. If Margery Kempe did not have such ridiculous beliefs, she would not be mocked by society. In doing what she does, Margery Kemp leaves society with a negative opinion of her, reflecting poorly on other women around her.
Margery Kempe’s popularity obviously portrays women in a more negative light than a positive one. The reason she has her popularity is because of her extreme views, which may not be the best way to gain a positive reputation. In today’s world, Kempe’s views would have been respected, but during the time period, women weren’t supposed to be know based on their views on things. Vince also brought up a good point when he said that, “she’d rather see him murdered than have sex with him.” That statement runs in a completely opposite direction of innocence. Murder and celibacy just don’t go together.