Review of Week 6: September 25, 27

Tuesday, September 26 (9:25 a.m.)
by Patrick Walker

In class we discussed first the Wife of Bath’s Tale. We talked about the multiple versions of the story including the Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnell where Sir Gawain is good, the model of courtly love and his beautiful wife is a reward for his belief. Another being the Tale of Florent by John Gower.

These other versions typically involve:

  1. A curse being broken.
  2. The innateness of nobility- the conservative view
  3. Women as revealing the true identity, true nobility, transformation through marriage

(The male alternative to the transformation of the cursed old hag: the Fair Unknown, works their way up to a knight who turns out to be a king’s son.)

The Wife of Bath takes a very different approach with her version

Quest to redeem himself

Sent by queen on test for a year

Made to find an answer to fit his crime

How is that choice different in other versions?

There was a brief discussion as to the knight’s intentions in the story

How do we read his final decision? Is he submitting to her will or is he tricking her into believing that he is.

We then looked to the evidence:

Professor Seaman mentioned that the women’s lecture is ¼ of the story and that during her pillow lecture she sites evidence like the Wife of Bath

At around line 1217 the old woman presents the knight with two options

  1. She can be faithful but will be old and ugly
  2. Or she may be unfaithful and be young and attractive

In other versions of the story she offers the knight different options

He may choose Beauty/youth at night or day

These versions offer the question: What is it that men desire most?

  1. To be envied by day because of one’s beautiful wife
  2. Or to have the physical pleasure at night of a young attractive woman

In Wife of Bath reputation was a matter between:

  1. Being Cuckolded, to be shamed, by a young, attractive wife
  2. Or a reputation of control as with the  old, ugly wife

Chaucer’s version:

  1. Women have desire- the opportunity in youth
  2. Women’s will and desire must be acknowledged by men

Other versions:

  1. how the choice reflects upon the man

Then we took a look at the fairies, the first of two “digressions” in the story

Around Line 990:

  1. The knight does not yet have the answer
  2. He sees twenty-four women and his first thought is to ask them for their wisdom, not for sex
  3. a reflection on his change in mindset towards women.
  4. In the beginning, to him all women have to offer was sexual desire
  5. Forced to see women as an authority, a source of wisdom.

It is a pattern of being forced to do something

He must acknowledge his own lack of control

In line 912 he is deprived of his will

1061 the knight pleads that the old woman let his body go

It is a legal reversal, put in a position of understanding rape, the perspective of his victim

1106 I could change all this if I wanted to

Lack of naming characters

-could be style

-could be generalization

In line 886 the knight took away the power of the maiden he raped

890 would lose his head for rape (not normal recourse during the time of the Wife of Bath)

Other scenarios (as at the time of the Wife of Bath as she tells her tale, set in the distant past)-

  1. would have to marry her
  2. pay father (she has been devalued, not as eligible)

Why spare him? Women may see an alternative to his death

In line 1040 the knight presents the answer he is given

In line 1230 when he submits to his wife, he simply reinforces the answer she originally gave him

 

What causes the couple’s harmony at the end of the story?

  1. His submission after she presents her argument
  2. Her rhetoric (unlike the Wife of Bath’s violence)

 

Does he actually win?

He is married, not free in the woods raping

Knight is not final authority, must sacrifice to get reward

Digressions

First Lines: fairy

Could the Elf Queen be the Hag?

Daunced full oft in many a grene mede (like when knight finds them)

The women disappear but the old woman appears, the Elf Queen in a transformed state?

Friars replace fairies with themselves

880 no other incubus but he (the friar)

Implies that women are in the same position with the friars as they were with the fairies

 

Knights (secular) friars (religious) not on women’s side

 

Midas story 950

An exemplum

But the story is changed from Ovid (the barber reveals his secret in Ovid’s version)

The wife does not betray her husband

It is not the wife who is unfaithful to Midas

 

Tuesday, September 4 (10:50)

by Aislinn Lavoie

Class started today by discussing our paper that is due at 11 PM on Wednesday, September 26th, in the drop box on OAKS. Dr. Seaman mentioned to make sure we get out papers in no later than 11 PM so that we don’t have to reopen the drop box and submit it after the deadline. Dr. Seaman has office hours this afternoon from 3:00-4:30 incase students want to talk about the paper or have quick questions; we can also reach her by e-mail.

In class on Thursday, we are going to discuss the 2 excerpts we read for class. Since most of what we have been reading has been focused on romance, excerpts are new to us. The reading for Thursday is representative of most popular literature at the time. Dr. Seaman reminded the class that reading excerpts is often times difficult.

Reminder to class: next week on Thursday, October 4th, we have our midterm. This week on Thursday, September 27th, we are going to be talking about the midterm, the way it is structured, and some of the questions that we might expect to see.

For the remainder of class, we talked about the Wife of Bath’s Tale. We started by talking about the Wife of Bath’s Tale being unlike any other material by Chaucer. There were other stories like the Wife of Bath’s Tale circulating at the time that are basically the same stories, they are called analogues. It is helpful for us  to think of other ways people had to tell the story.

The first story we talked about that is similar to the Wife of Bath’s Tale is called The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle. This version is from 100 years after Chaucer. In this story, Sir Gawain is forced to marry an ugly woman in Arthur’s place. He, also, has to go on a quest to find the answer to what women want the most, but in this case it’s not a rapist, it’s the best knight in Arthur’s household. The ugly lady is extremely ugly, at the wedding she has tusks coming out of her, she is huge, she drools, and at the wedding feast, she pulls the food off of everybody’s plate and eats it herself. Through it all, Gawain is the perfect knight and husband.

The second story we talked about is the Tale of Florent. This story is again about a knight who is a good, honorable man who goes on a quest to find the answer to a question that is unanswerable. He also marries an ugly hag.

After comparing the two stories to the Wife of Bath’s Tale, we discussed what our own interpretation of what the story is saying in a whole. Key points we discussed to offer meaning and to help us interpret it include the answer that the old lady gave the knight about what women most desire, the knights decision at the end to say it was the old lady’s fate and how the dynamic plays out and his submission, or statement, to her by having her choose, and when Queen Guinevere steps in and becomes the legal authority figure, which is unusual because normally Arthur would be the authority. If the queen hadn’t stepped in as she did, the knight would have been executed and the story would not have been a romance of any sort. Next, we talked about the pillow lecture that occurred after their wedding night. The first thing the old lady does is lecture the knight on his poor theology and point out his flaws, saying he is always wrong about pretty much everything.

Next, the class discussed why the queen steps in and gives the knight a chance to go on this quest. As a class, we came up with the conclusion that Queen Guinevere wants him to learn a lesson rather than get his head chopped off because that would just be vicious revenge. Since the knight committed a crime against women specifically, by demanding him to go on a quest to find out what women what and to learn how they think is teaching him a greater lesson. Throughout the quest, the knight suffers and he is unable to find the answer to the question. The quest that the knight is forced to go on is unlike normal quests, his quest is humiliating, disempowering, and emasculating for him. Today, we wouldn’t see this as demeaning, but for him, in his society, it takes his position down multiple notches. On the bottom of page 315, around line 985, the knight saw that he might not come up with the right answer about what women most desire, but he went home anyways because he couldn’t keep looking. On his way home, under the forest side, he sees 24 and more dancing ladies on the meadow. He was eager to go over to see these ladies to learn to get wisdom. Now, the knight sees women as a source of wisdom and answers rather than seeing lust, sex, and power. After he passes them, he sees an ugly woman who seems to know things. She gives him the answer, but he has to make a bargain. The bargain involves promising something before he actually knew why he was promising. He agreed, and she gives him the answer.

When the knight has the answer, he continues back home to Arthur’s court. To present his answer, he is in a court of noble women of every level that gather to hear the answer. Everybody is told to be quiet as the knight answers the question with a manly voice. He says he is at their will; he presents the information in a way that he is enacting or performing sovereignty. On one hand, he’s enacting it, and on the other hand it is because the women have the legal authority to make him. The knight keeps being put in positions where he has to see from other perspectives and he has others making his choices for him, they have authority over his body. Essentially, the knight sacrificed his prior identity, although he still insists he is noble.

Next, Dr. Seaman offered the class a question, in the lecture that the ugly old woman, his wife, gives the knight on page 317, how does she challenge his different views and material? She finds out that she saves his life and she makes him feel ungrateful, on top of that she adds another perspective. He was insulting her by saying that not only is she ugly and old, she also comes from poor lineage. She challenges the notion that can inherit goodness and she challenges what he says about poverty and age. On page 318, around line 1216, the old lady says she knows his delite and she will fulfill his worldly appetite. He is put in a position to choose. The choice is between having an old, ugly, but loyal wife, or a pretty wife that may or may not be loyal. He thinks about it, sighs, and decides to let his wife make the choice. He calls her his lady and his love. She chooses to become young, beautiful, and loyal because she doesn’t need anybody to free her, there is no curse and everything is her choice. After she becomes lovely, she obeys the knight and they live happily. We then compared her lecture to the Wife of Bath’s. She uses authorities to support her point and she has a more standard argument than the Wife of Bath. The lecture takes up something like a quarter of the tale, which is a lot to spend on a lecture in a romance.

The old lady’s choice to become beautiful changes the whole story. It started as a story about a knight raping a girl, and ends as a happy-ever-after romance. The knight is almost rewarded. He doesn’t know the answer and an ugly old lady who turns into his young, beautiful wife gives it to him.

In other versions of the Wife of Bath’s Tale, the choice is that either she will be old and ugly during the day or old and ugly at night. This is to challenge what is more important to him, his public reputation or private needs. There is a significant difference in the nature of the Wife of Bath’s Tale and this tale, because in this tale, it is all about how the situation will reflect on him. In this story, his reputation is about if he has a loyal wife or not. If his wife was not loyal, it would show that he doesn’t have the power or influence to keep her in place and happy. In other versions, the knight is saving the women.

Ultimately, it’s not about representation. The choice directs our mind somewhere else. It suggests that women have power, a will, and desire things like men. Central to this is that women have desire, and in certain circumstances, they can act on it.

The class then compared Shrek to the Wife of Bath’s Tale but opposite because in Shrek, she goes from beautiful to hideous (her true nature) rather than hideous to beautiful.

We then talked about if the knight is sarcastic at all when he is talking to his wife before she makes the choice to become young and beautiful. We agreed that the tone is more straightforward because he is putting the decision into her hands because he is already so defeated and he’s already committed to this ugly woman and he sees no way out. Dr. Seaman reminded us that looking at the language in this text is very important. When the knight calls the old lady his lady and his life, it may have made her want to change for him because women want their husbands love. When the knight gives her the choice, it is not simply him giving up, it is an acknowledgement of his own insufficiency because he can’t choose himself. Throughout the tale, women are in power.

The class then discussed that it is important to recognize what the knight has lost throughout the tale, including his honor, his reputation, and his identity. He ends up giving up everything to his wife willfully. He is unsure if he is going to get anything from the situation when he gives her the choice; there are no constraints on him and he could have made the decision on his own. The fact that he doesn’t make the decision and lets her choose, in the act of giving her the power, he is giving up his own power, instead of it being taken from him by the law. In medieval times, his sacrifices are a big deal.

We then discussed the fairies and elves described at the beginning of the tale. All the land was filled with fairies, but they don’t exist anymore because when the fryers came out, they went around and blessed everything, chasing away the fairies and elves. The Wife of Bath is sad that there are no longer fairies and elves because she would love to be the Elf Queen. Now, the friars are running around and raping people in the forest versus the creatures that used to do it. Both secular and religious authorities are abusive towards women.

Lastly, we talked about the story of Midas. The story of Midas is presented after line 950 where it says women know nothing about keeping secrets. The story is supposed to prove that women can’t keep secrets. In this story, the wife tells the water the secret, but she doesn’t tell any people. This does and doesn’t show the narrators point because she tells the secret, but not to anyone that can hear her. In the original story, there is no gender dynamic; it’s the king’s barber, not his wife.

Noteworthy Quotes:

“This is to sey, what women love moost, / Withinne his brest ful sorweful was the goost. / But hoom he gooth. / He myghte nat sojourne” (985-987).

“Whereas he saugh upon a daunce go / Of ladyes foure and twenty and yet mo, / Toward the which daunce he drow ful yerne / In hope that som wysdom sholde he lerne” (991-994).

“But nathelees, syn I knowe youre delit, / I shal fulfille youre worldly appetite” (1217-1218)

“My lady and my love and wyf so deere, / I put me in youre wise governance. / Cheseth yourself which may be moost pleasance / And moost honour to yow and me also” (1230-1233).

Thursday, September 27 (9:25)
by Alexandra Seabrook

Overview:

As both were born during the time of Chaucer, Margery Kempe and Julian of Norwich were contemporaries. At this time, lay people had an interest in spiritual visions as a religious tool. In the late 1400s, there was a real focus on the physical suffering of Christ and physical reception of the believer. More and more depictions of Christ with human qualities are seen. People felt they should suffer just as Christ did for their own sins. Writers like Kempe referred to humans as “wretched” creatures.” People believed that all that is good and valuable comes solely from Christ’s grace.

Julian of Norwich:

A theologian, if not authorized, she lived in as an anchorite. Julian’s aim was to explain scripture through her visions and studying. Over the course of her life, she had 16 visions total. She wrote to tell people of these visions in hopes that they would have a better understanding of their own relationship with Christ.

Her perception of God seems to be his goodness. In none of her visions do we see images of people in Hell. Julian saw God as forgiving and appreciative of common people’s good intent, generosity, and love. She contradicts the fear of damnation that many people (including Kempe) felt at this time.

In her explanation of her most famous vision, Julian requests God to bestow upon her a sickness so grave, she nearly dies. She also requests to bear the five wounds of Christ in that she may truly understand his suffering.

Margery Kempe

Kempe was not a theologian at all, but rather a lay person with a strong fear of God. Kempe takes a bolder approach to her writing by mirroring her own life to that of a saint’s. At this time, there was a real clamp down on any unauthorized expression of religious authority. Kempe outwardly proclaimed her very personal relationship with God. She was much more concerned with self-expression of the individual, and was accused of being a lollard.

At one point she is questioned by the archbishop for crimes of heresy, but Kempe still managed to slip by and show her devout nature. In contrast to Julian, Kempe was plagued by her own thoughts of impending doom. She was stricken by the idea that she might go to Hell for committing even the slightest sin. Many excerpts even describe Margey crying and wailing in the churches.

Another oddity was Kempe’s celibacy with her husband. She fears something awful might happen should she and her husband engage in sexual activity. The main struggle is that Kempe plays within the bounds of a saint’s life, but she is not a saint. What is useful however is that Kempe represents a lay person trying to learn how to live within the expectations of an extreme belief system. She attempts to be as true to her faith as possible.

Both Kempe and Julian illustrate Christ as a human figure. Julian reveals a softer and sweeter sense of God, while Kempe sees God as encompassing her life. This is part of what is known as the affective piety movement. Christ was seen more as someone people could identify with.

Noteworthy Quotes:

Julian of Norwich:

“Sin is behoovely, but all shall be well, all shall be well…” (354)

A famous quote, this is quite a typical stance for Julian. She is saying that although sin is inevitable, everything will be all right in time.

“…the quantity of a hazelnut in the palm of my hand…What may this be? And it was generally answered thus: It is all that is made.” (Broadview Anthology 352)

This line shows us that God makes and sustains his creation, and that even the smallest things matter and can mean everything.

“Wit it well: love was His meaning…” (363)

This passage shows Julian’s true perception of God as a loving and understanding entity. It also tells readers that the answer to all of their most pressing questions is indeed, love.

Margery Kempe:

“…she desired all wickedness; just as the spirits tempted her to do…” (369)

This quote shows the darker tone of Kempe’s writings and how she felt the pain of temptation many times.

“This melody was so sweet…’It is fully merry in heaven’” (370)

This passage is vital in that it shows the tranquility Kempe finally receives upon hearing the sublime tune. She is now at peace with herself and her relationship with God.

Key Terms

Piety-religious devotion

Affective piety– piety that is expressed/experienced through an emotional response.

Saint’s lives– involve a pattern of a sinner, who has a spiritual epiphany, then lives better afterward.

Anchorite– a person who lives in a small room on the side of a house or church, with only windows. An anchorite’s life is devoted to prayer and meditation. They were seen as models for the concept of a wholly devoted life.

Lollard– a rebel against the church, or pretending to be pious.

 

Thursday, September 27 (10:50)
by Brittani Russell

Overview

Discussed Midterm (Oct. 4)

  • See blog website for details
  • Three sections (worth 32, 34, and 34 points)
  • Be familiar with all reading (listed on website) and terms
  • Sample response question (worth no credit) will be available in OAKS for feedback and practice purposes

Margery Kempe and Julian of Norwich

  • Both are writing at the time when what they wrote was slightly on the dangerous side
  • Affective piety: devotion to religion through feelings and emotions; not simply a matter of readings and learning
  • Both focus on Christ human elements; humanize God through Christ

Julian of Norwich (1342-1416) and A Revelation of Love

  • Anchorite– being shut in, built into the church, pretty popular in the 14th century
  • Still had interactions with people, however very limited
  • Would pray (seen as labor, something really productive) for others
  • Anchorite’s position gave him or her power within the church
  • Julian Had visions that she shared with people
  • Lived during a time (late 1300s early 1400s) where feelings, emotions and visions were widely popular
  • Suffering, in pain, with Christ
  • Had visions when she was 40 while she was deathly ill
  • Asked Christ to make her ill to the point of near death and for visions (she gets both desires)
  • Visions give her revelations about God — loving, forgiving, merciful
  • Presents the idea of a truly merciful Jesus, and not simply someone who sits and rules from the cross
  • Writes a theology

Margery of Kempe and The Book of Margery Kempe

  • Feels more so undeserving of the love of Christ
  • Comes from a similar kind of approach as Julian, however they differ on larger themes
  • Presents her works as a testimony of going from a “poor” Christian to a better Christian
  • The Church doesn’t necessarily agree with what her views are, but can’t find specific reasons to go against her
  • Spends a great deal of her time on pilgrimages, testifying, crying out, calling out people’s wrongdoings, etc.
  • Discusses celibacy in great deal, even though she is a married woman
  • Presents herself publicly and privately as a bride of Christ and does extreme things simply because she claims that Christ told her to (wearing all white for example)
  • Writes more so in narrative form, telling stories

Noteworthy Quotes

  • Julian of Norwich’s revelation about God focused a great deal on how loving He is

Key Terms

  • Anchorite
  • Christianity
  • Celibacy
  • Love
  • Revelation

 

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